Curse

Arduin · Apr 08, 2009, 08:30 AM // 08:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chocobo1

Yeah, I already know this but it just doesn't add up to my experience in many parts of the game.

Anecdotal experience or experiences where you logged 100+ farmruns and made an analysis of the drops?

Because I can get 6 golds from the Raptors too. But I can also get no golds. It's called randomness.

Chocobo1 · Apr 08, 2009, 09:33 AM // 09:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arduinna

Anecdotal experience or experiences where you logged 100+ farmruns and made an analysis of the drops?

Because I can get 6 golds from the Raptors too. But I can also get no golds. It's called randomness.

Meh I don't care that much, I just noticed the more I did the run the less golds I got. My mate agreed with me and so I was surprised to find that this isn't the case.

Fay Vert · Apr 08, 2009, 11:32 AM // 11:32

1) Loot scaling is bad in principle. When you add henchmen, they take their fee in the form of a share of the drops. If you don't add henchmen, guess what! They STILL take the loot, that's just broken.

2) Collector items are affected which sort of messes up the whole collector mechanic.

3) Loot scaling isn't implemented as claimed, the loot nerf is on rate of kill more than party size and affects full parties just as much as going solo. In fact certain solo methods incure zero loot nerf, because they kill monsters slowly and one at a time.

4) This was done to save teh economy> lol, what econiomy? GW economy is in the toilet, it's not worth saving.

5) By making much of farming rather pointless, ANet is removing a style of gameplay from the game. That's never healthy. Sure farming is still popular, but now the variety of gameplay for farmers is much less. I used to farm many places (otherwise it gets boring) but now there are far fewer that are worth the time. So not only is farming more dreary than it used to be, but the art of making builds and learning new runs is gone, again, this is not a good thing when everyone is running out of things to do and there is no new content added to the game.

6) Why do people REALLY grind and want wealth? Because grind and wealth is now the goal of the game. You have to grind to get those titles and the HOM.

There are many many reasons why the loot nerf was bad, but for me it was the day GW died, the loot nerf was a fun nerf. It would have been better if they had removed ALL loot from the game and switched to a quest/reward mechanism for player advancement. That wont happen soon because that takes a lot more effort from ANet, loot drops are easy content, by nerfing loot, they removed content.

MrTickle · Apr 08, 2009, 03:10 PM // 15:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enchanted Warrior

...

When you finish a difficult dungeon and get a gold staff with 17% chance and req13 OUT OF THE CHEST, you really feel like you've been kicked in the bollocks. ..

This happend to me yesterday doing dungeons in HM boy are my bollocks swollen

Oh I also got.... wait for it.... A diamond!!!

Cab Tastic · Apr 08, 2009, 04:42 PM // 16:42

Now we have had Loot scaling for some time we can really see how it saved the GW economy.

Skyy High · Apr 08, 2009, 04:48 PM // 16:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enchanted Warrior

Now they have loot scaling which means I can fight a high level boss and get re6 items. O.o I completed a tough dungeon and got a blue scroll and a white axe that should drop outside Ascalon.

That's not how loot scaling works. If you got low level items from a dungeon, chances are it was from one of the low level enemies that populate some of GW:EN's dungeons (lvl14 baby spiders, wurm larvae, something like that). Loot scaling also doesn't do anything if you're in a full group.

Quote:

What am I missing? Also, with all the farming, (only thing to do when you have done all the missions or all you care to) will the loot scaling get even worse?

You're missing the fact that the game (shouldn't) be about farming. If you've really done everything, which I doubt, you should either be playing HM dungeons, moving to PvP, or putting the game down and playing something else. The endgame for PvE was never intended to be solely farming.

@Cab: "saved", no, "improved", yes. The only people who really think the economy sucks are the elites here on Guru whose high-value items have depreciated from mudflation and lack of real gold sinks. For the remaining 95% of players, an economy where you can buy almost any skin you want for an amount of gold equal to a few days' to a months' questing is awesome.

JASON626 · Apr 08, 2009, 04:56 PM // 16:56

basically people can use more than one account now add to there own party size and increase loot gained per run to get around it somewhat. And get more free zkeys to boot.

Ate of DK · Apr 08, 2009, 05:02 PM // 17:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by JASON626

basically people can use more than one account now add to there own party size and increase loot gained per run to get around it somewhat. And get more free zkeys to boot.

Yes, because Anet wants to see our money. I haven't heard someone got banned for using the GWx2 program. It's all about the money.

Buster · Apr 08, 2009, 05:56 PM // 17:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

That's not how loot scaling works. If you got low level items from a dungeon, chances are it was from one of the low level enemies that populate some of GW:EN's dungeons (lvl14 baby spiders, wurm larvae, something like that). Loot scaling also doesn't do anything if you're in a full group.

You're missing the fact that the game (shouldn't) be about farming. If you've really done everything, which I doubt, you should either be playing HM dungeons, moving to PvP, or putting the game down and playing something else. The endgame for PvE was never intended to be solely farming.

@Cab: "saved", no, "improved", yes. The only people who really think the economy sucks are the elites here on Guru whose high-value items have depreciated from mudflation and lack of real gold sinks. For the remaining 95% of players, an economy where you can buy almost any skin you want for an amount of gold equal to a few days' to a months' questing is awesome.

Agreed that most games should not be about money but when you think about, Arenanet is to blame. The Hall of Monuments is just a huge money sink, allowing people to sell minipets, npcs in guild halls cost 100k and they expect people not to farm ?

Enchanted Warrior · Apr 08, 2009, 08:08 PM // 20:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

That's not how loot scaling works. If you got low level items from a dungeon, chances are it was from one of the low level enemies that populate some of GW:EN's dungeons (lvl14 baby spiders, wurm larvae, something like that). Loot scaling also doesn't do anything if you're in a full group.

Nope it was from the boss. I don't want to farm, I don't want farming made better, I want the reason for farming removed. Give us a reason to play the game, team up to that end. To save Ascalon not to play lets make a deal.

Perkunas · Apr 08, 2009, 09:07 PM // 21:07

I can remember when Loot Scaling went into effect. I was 'farming' Skales outside pre-searing Fort Ranik. I had made 3 trips that morning, with virtually every skale dropping something. I was emptying inventory every trip into town. On one trip into town, there was the "New Build" notice. I logged off and back on and continued with my 'farming'. WTF happened? Only 1 Skale dropped an item. I made a second run, same results.

I had been chatting with a guild mate who was 'farming' on the Jade Sea. He asked what the update had been. His drops had "gone to hell", too, as he put it. That was the same day I learned of these forums. I came here to see what was going on.

Making gold had gone from easy to damn near impossible for me. My second character through the game had to spend more time doing side activities to be able to afford his elite armor that the first one through earned as he went. In fact, my first one through had to help farm some for the second one.

I finally broke down and learned the 600/smite team farm build, and began the "hardcore" farming. I 'had' to, just to be able to get what I had gotten prior to the loot scaling. 600/smiting filled my account enough to allow me to play new characters and get them improvements as they progress through the game. And no, I do not sell or give to the public. I use or merchant what I farm. The 'greens' and 'golds' I have are what I earned, end game or farmed. Thanks to tomes, my Ele will have every skill in the game.

Loot scaling was meant to slow or stop bot farming. It pushed me into HM farming. Personally, I think loot scaling can vanish. Then, if everyone would learn to pick up and merchant every drop, they would have more gold than they need.

New Buddha · Apr 08, 2009, 09:23 PM // 21:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enchanted Warrior

Another friend pointed out, if you can play the game and not care about the rewards, fancy armor, then you'll enjoy gw. I replied, and on what planet do these people hail from? LOL

I was one of those for my first 3-4 months. Fun times.

HawkofStorms · Apr 08, 2009, 09:33 PM // 21:33

From the massive amount of confusion evidenced in this thread (people thinking loot scaling affects the drop tables, the requirements of items you get, or is like the old anti-farm code and reduces earnings after overfarming) it's clear that loot scaling, much like the /report and dishonor system (ie, confusing the types of reports that lead to bans and are reviewed vs ones that are automated and give dishonor), really just isn't understood by the majority of the community.

It's a shame that so many people who shout "outrage" don't really understand what they are complaining about. One of my favorite TV shows "Heroes" went to hell after people kept whining about how "all this time travel stuff makes no sense, plot hole plot hole" when in fact the show made perfect sense and people just didn't bother watching all the episodes to follow along.
Don't try to change stuff if you don't even understand how it works.

Enchanted Warrior · Apr 08, 2009, 09:36 PM // 21:36

An economy (which is what all this stems from) is a failed idea in any shape or form. It's player driven content, that is too easily perverted and manipulated. If a mmo/game ever has the intelligence to evolve without one in any shape or from, then that game will be my home for good. (ok it would also need to have NO pvp but that's just me). Even though I left it, LOTRO is very close to that ideal.

Fay Vert · Apr 08, 2009, 09:48 PM // 21:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

Loot scaling also doesn't do anything if you're in a full group.

Stop right there, you fail if you think loot scaling doesn't affect full parties because it does.

The drops are nerfed on kill rate. I can go out solo and kill solo, getting a drop from every kill if I do it one kille per 30 seconds. Take a full 12 man party into Urgoz and clear the place in less than an hour and you will feel the full force of the loot nerf hitting a 12 man party.

Zahr Dalsk · Apr 08, 2009, 10:00 PM // 22:00

1. Anti-farming code is still quite likely in place, they just took away the warning and softened the effects a bit.

2. Loot scaling should supposedly prevent inflation of the player economy. This is good for power traders (the minority), but bad for those of us (the majority) who'd just like to buy armour and such from NPCs.

illidan009 · Apr 08, 2009, 10:04 PM // 22:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enchanted Warrior

kicked in the bollocks.

QFT, best description EVERRR. Dungeon chests needs revamping, especially the hard ones, like Shards of Orr HM dropping a piece of defecated material.

Ate of DK · Apr 08, 2009, 10:16 PM // 22:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

1. Anti-farming code is still quite likely in place, they just took away the warning and softened the effects a bit.

Not true.

12345

Cab Tastic · Apr 08, 2009, 10:58 PM // 22:58

It's one thing I am surprised ANET has not come clean on is the whole rate of kill aspect of loot scaling.

Usually as a company I find them very transparent on issues of this magnitude.

FengShuiDove · Apr 08, 2009, 11:10 PM // 23:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cab Tastic

It's one thing I am surprised ANET has not come clean on is the whole rate of kill aspect of loot scaling.

Usually as a company I find them very transparent on issues of this magnitude.

There was an excellent, EXCELLENT study done on this using a 55 SoJ vs. 55 SV. You ought to search for the thread, as it seems to be quite conclusive. I won't spoil the apparent results for you, but it's something else

.

As far as the benefit of lootscaling, well, you don't collect as much in gold or certain other items if you solo, and that's about it. The value has to come from what you're farming, not *necessarily* the quantity of the kill or the rate of kill (though those can definitely contribute to a farm's effectiveness). The idea is to encourage team play without killing solo farming, hence the comparison of what's affected vs. what's not.

EDIT: It was SoJ, not SS, and here's the link:

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10225077